Last week, Kevin F, PIR® Board President, had the opportunity to join Joe Dolce for a conversation on his podcast, Modern Psychedelics, which is hosted on his Substack that released the episode today. The podcast takes its name from Joe’s book published last summer, and—true to form—the conversation ranged across history, personal narrative, and the complicated realities of building something new, like Psychedelics in Recovery™, in a rapidly shifting landscape.
As tends to happen when speaking publicly about this work, Kevin and Joe covered familiar terrain: how PIR® came into being, the contours of Kevin’s recovery story, and the long-standing (and often misunderstood) relationship between psychedelics and recovery culture—particularly the well-documented use of LSD by Bill Wilson in the 1950s. These topics are not novel to PIR members, but they continue to matter, especially as psychedelic narratives are increasingly flattened into soundbites that obscure nuance, context, and lived experience.
What members of PIR® may appreciate most in the exchange between Kevin and Joe, was the space it allowed for honest conversation about the tensions inherent in service work—especially when that service is directed toward a complex and evolving fellowship. For many of our volunteer service members, growing an organization like PIRⓇ has often felt like “building the plane while it’s taking off”: responding to real needs in real time, navigating ethical and legal uncertainty, and holding responsibility not only for ideas, but for people. That reality is rarely clean, and it resists the kind of certainty that both media cycles and policy debates often demand.
There is an added layer to this conversation that neither Kevin nor Joe could name at the time the episode was being recorded. As they were talking, news was breaking about potential federal funding cuts at SAMHSA that—had they gone through as initially reported—would have sent a significant shockwave through the behavioral health and recovery ecosystem. Thankfully, those cuts did not ultimately materialize. Still, the moment serves as an important backdrop for the themes we discussed: how fragile many of our support systems are, how dependent they remain on political winds, and how quickly stability can feel illusory for people already living close to the edge.
In that light, this conversation feels less like a retrospective and more like a snapshot of a field at a crossroads. Psychedelics are no longer fringe, but the structures meant to hold care, integration, and community have not caught up to the pace of interest or investment. Whether we are talking about mutual-aid fellowships and their organizational service leadership, or public mental health infrastructure, the same question keeps surfacing: how do we grow without losing the human center?
With gratitude to Joe for the chance to explore these questions in a way that honors complexity rather than bypassing it. If you’re interested in the intersections of recovery, psychedelics, history, and systems-level fragility—and in what it actually looks like to steward something
